GBE Question & Answer (Template) Q#14864

By January 25, 2017Code, Encyclopaedia, Q&A

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Q I am currently trying to find a suitable insulation material that is:

Q1 natural-based;

  • Mineral/Animal/Plant: many
  • Mineral+Plant: Hemp-lime, Earth-Cork, Cob, 
  • Mineral: Cellular glass, Aerogel,
  • Animal: Sheep’s wool, Goat hair, Goose down,  
  • Plant: Wood fibre, Hemp, Cellulose fibre, Cork, etc.
  • not chemical, petrochemical, hydrocarbon, plastic

Q2 relatively great thermal insulator;

A2A  Conductivity?

  • (not plastic)
  • VIP Vacuum Insulated Panel,
  • Aerogel,

A2B Radiation?

  • Not plastic,
  • Not multifoils: (only reflective),
  • Cellular Glass,
  • Dense Wood Fibre
  • Cellulose fibre
  • Hemp-lime (improves as hydration progresses over long period)
  • Cork

Q3 airtight;

  • Foil faced (but not plastic) and taped joints None that I know about
  • Spray foam (but not plastic) None in market that I know about
  • VIP Vacuum Insulated Panel and taped joints
  • Cellular glass with taped joints or flood coat
  • Hemp-lime: Smoothing shown face will close surface
  • Cellulose fibre sprayed into place with or without added water

A3A Is it part of external envelop (includes suspended ground floor)

  • vapour open or vapour closed?

Q4 sprayable;

  • Cellulose fibre (Newspaper/magazine) flake, wet or dry application
  • Not Sprayed foaming plastic (but not plastic)
  • Plant based resin polyurethane (no longer made or sold in UK market)
  • Hemp-lime sprayed

Q5 adhesive enough to stick to horizontal surface (Should be Q1B) in this process)

  • Is this ground floor suspended or upper floor suspended?
  • Access for spray equipment?
  • Access to manual application?
  • Can the boards be lifted off, work carried out and boards relayed?

A5A (e.g. underside of floor boards on suspended timber floors). (Should be Q1A in this process)

  • Sprayed polyurethane (but not plastic)
  • Cellulose fibre (Newspaper/magazine) flake, wet application like papier mache
  • Hemp-lime sprayed

A5B Squeezy for compression between framing expansion and self-supporting between framing

  • Medium density cellulose fibre batts (poorer conductivity)
  • Medium density wood fibre batts (poorer conductivity)

A5C Supported by battens on sides of floor framing

  • High density wood fibre board (poorer conductivity)
  • High density cellulose fibre board (poorer conductivity)

A5D Supported by insulation support system stapled to sides of floor framing

I have been talking to Diasen (that manufacture’s Diathonite Evolution) and their product seems to meet almost all the above criteria, however, it is a bit too expensive.

  • Diasen
  • Diathonite Evolution G#1796 N#1683
  • You don’t get what you don’t pay for
  • Save some money somewhere else: taps, ironmongery, kitchen, bathroom, etc.
  • It’s the right price for a 4/5 multi-functional insulation
  • It may be the only product that is right for all 5 of your requirements
  • Anything less than 5/5 may be incompetent
  • Check with your client before choosing 4/5 or less at the wrong lower price

I wondered if you happen to know any other materials that meets these requirement (for example I came across with “ThermoPor”)

  • ThermoPor

Do you know how expensive they are compared to Diathonite?

  • No, that’s your job, ask the manufacturer.

Their lambda value is worse though.

  • You get what you pay for.

I am fully aware that both Diathonite and ThermoPor are originally for external wall cladding, whilst I am interested in floor insulation,

  • So is it competent in a floor situation?

but I am specifically looking for a sprayable adhesive material (due to access issues),

  • have you checked if the spray equipment can access your floor?
  • See my notes above interspersed with your 5 criteria
  • Is spray the only answer?

whilst I also try to stay away from Spray Polyurethane Foam SPF (to avoid off-gassing issues).

  • The plant based spray foam that was available was withdrawn because they could not be confident the resin was ethically sourced.
  • Find a SPF that does not off-gas?

© GBE NGS ASWS BrianSpecMan aka Brian Murphy
25th January 2017

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© GBE NGS ASWS BrianSpecMan aka Brian Murphy
25th January 2017 – 27th January 2017

Stone Barn Conversion Thermal Insulation (Q+A)
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Barn Conversion to House Pitched Roof

Pitched roof thermal insulation

Stone Barn Conversion Thermal Insulation (Q+A)
About:

 

External walls are bare stone, about 500mm thick – previously used as barns, so no previous finishes

Application: External Wall Internal Thermal Insulation/Dry Lining

Material: Dense wood fibre thermal insulation

  • NBT Natural Building Technology(Supplier)
    • They Supply Pavatex (Manufacturer) for External and Internal
    • They also supply Unger Diffutherm (Manufacturer) for External and Internal
  • Ecomechant (Supplier)
    • They supply Steico (Manufacturer)
  • Back to Earth (Supplier)
    • They supply Unger Diffutherm (Manufacturer)
  • Ecological Building Systems (Supplier)
    • They supply Gutex (Manufacturer)
  • Partel (Supplier)
    • They supply Schneider (Manufacturer)
  • Panel Agency (Supplier)
    • They supply Steico (Manufacturer)
  • EnviroForm Solutions (Manufacturer)
    • They make their own dry-lining sub-systems (insulation and lining)
  • Resistant Building Products (Manufacturer)
    • They make their own dry-lining sub-systems (insulation and lining)

 

Air Tightness Layer & Wind Tightness Layer (ATL & WTL)

 

 

 

  • Consider lime plaster instead of gypsum plasterboard and check if Pavadry or its replacement is suitable

Lime suppliers: many in UK

Consider clay plaster instead of gypsum plasterboard and check if Pavadry or its replacement is suitable

  • EcoMechant (Supplier)
    • They supply Argilus (Manufacturer)
  • Back to Earth(Supplier)
    • They supply EBB (Manufacturer) Clay plasters

Consider clay board instead of gypsum plasterboard

  • Back to Earth (Supplier)
    • They supply EBB (Manufacturer) Clayboards

Consider bio-composite breathing board substitute for plasterboard

Consider Bio-Composite breathing plaster

Consider Magnesium Oxide (MgO) boards

  • Panel Agency (Supplier)
    • They supply Econic MGO board (Product)
  • Dragonboard (Manufacturer)
    • They make Dragonboard (Product)

Consider seconds from production runs

  • Seconds (Supplier)
    • They supply end of runs products at lower costs (suits DIY market that cares about detail)

 

  • Aerogels are not cheap but they are thinner still
  • EnviroForm Solutions (Manufacturer)
    • They make their own dry-lining sub-systems (insulation and lining)
  • Resistant Building Products (Manufacturer)
    • They make their own dry-lining sub-systems (insulation and lining)

 

  • Calcium Silicate Insulation was developed for solid wall internal insulation, probably not cheap
  • Ecological Building Systems (supplier)
    • They supply Calsitherm (Manufacturer) ClimaPlatte (Product)
  • Partel (Supplier)
    • They supply Epatherm (Product)

 

  • Cheap comes from glass and stone wool but it will be thicker (for a set U value)
  • Cheap comes from expanded polystyrene (Middle Of Road k value)

 

  • Hemp-lime internal insulation (damp sprayed onto surface between framing set off wall, for drylining boards
    • Lime Technology Ltd. (Manufacturer)
  • They supply Tradical Binder (Product)

 

  • Cellulose flake: NB Check with Manufacturer or supplier if competent for inner face of external solid wall
  • Cellulose flake recycled newspaper internal insulation (dry blown through holes in drylining board)
  • Cellulose flake recycled newspaper internal insulation (damp blown onto surface between framing set off wall for drylining board)

 

 

  • Consider a dense fibre reinforced desulferisation gypsum board for fixing TV brackets direct to drylining
  • EcoMechant (Supplier)
  • They supply Fermacell (Manufacturer)
  • Consider Magnesium Oxide (MgO) boards
  • Panel Agency (Supplier)
    • They supply Econic MGO board (Product)

Dragonboard (Manufacturer)

  • They make Dragonboard (Product)
  • Compromise: glass fibre reinforced plasterboard
  • Consider thermal bridge issues at windows and Doors
  • EnviroForm Solutions (Manufacturer)
  • They have window and door reveal Aerogel based thermal bridge solutions
  • They make ThermoPro (product range)
  • Check with to see if they have developed an internal fixing solution
  • Swifix (Manufacturer)
  • Check with to see if they have developed an internal fixing solution or one of their external solutions be suitable for internal application
  • Consider Electric switch and socket thermal bridges
  • EnviroForm Solutions (Manufacturer)
  • They have switch socket Aerogel based thermal bridge solutions
  • They make Thermo-Soc (Product )
  • Vapour permeable adhesives or plasters can level the surfaces first and flat insulation follow
  • Back to Earth (Supplier) could also enquire on your behalf
    • They supply Unger Diffutherm (Manufacturer)
      • They make UdiReco (Product) Insulation and lining board bonded
    • One manufacturer promoted moisture permeable plastic insulation 5 years ago, is it still on the market?
    • One manufacturer promoted moisture permeable spray foam insulation
      • Airseal Insulation (no longer bio-plastic) (website gone)
      • Greehtherm Solutions Ltd. (Uk Distributor) Paddy Leighton
    • They Supply and Install Icynene (Product)
    • Some synthetic spray foam insulation have a very bad health reputation with those sensitive to its off-gassing

© GBE NGS ASWS BrianSpecMan aka Brian Murphy
25th January 2017 – 27th January 2017

Template: GBE Question & Answer (Template) Q#14864

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